UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
WASHINGTON, D.C. 1:39 p.m.
November 29, 1963
|
MEMORANDUM FOR |
MR. TOLSON
MR. BELMONT
MR. MOHR
MR. CONRAD
MR. DE LOACH
MR. EVANS
MR. ROSEN
MR. SULLIVAN
|
|
The President called and asked if I am familiar with
the proposed group they are trying to get to study my report - two from
the House, two from the Senate, two from the courts, and a couple of outsiders.
I replied that I had not heard of that but had seen reports from the Senate
Investigating Committee.
The President stated he wanted to get by just with my file
and my report. I told him I thought it would be very bad to have a rash
of investigations. He then indicated the only way to stop it is to appoint
a high-level committee to evaluate my report and tell the House and Senate
not to go ahead with the investigation. I stated that would be a three-ring
circus.
The President then asked what I think about Allen Dulles,
and I replied that he is a good man. He then asked about John McCloy, and
I stated I am not as enthusiastic about McCloy, that he is a good man but
I am not so certain as to the matter of publicity he might want. The President
then mentioned General [Lauris] Norstad, and I said he is a good man. He
said in the House he might try [Hale] Boggs and [Gerald R.] Ford and in
the Senate [Richard B.] Russell and [John Sherman] Cooper. I asked him
about Cooper and he indicated Cooper of Kentucky whom he described as a
judicial man, stating he would not want [Jacob K.] Javits. I agreed on
this point. He then reiterated Ford of Michigan, and I indicated I know
of him but do not know him and had never seen him except on television
the other day and that he handled himself well on television. I indicated
that I do know Boggs.
Johnson, President Lyndon B.
Assassination of President John F. Kennedy
Presidential Commission on Assassination
of President John F. Kennedy
Security - Presidential
Presidential Conferences
Presidential Travel Security
Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan
The President then mentioned that [Walter] Jenkins had told
him that I have designated Mr. DeLoach to work with them as he had on the
Hill.
He indicated they appreciated that and just wanted to tell
me they consider Mr. DeLoach as high class as I do, and that they salute
me for knowing how to pick good men.
There
is no evidence of Oswald ever getting $6500 dollars from the Cuban Embassy.
|
I advised the President that we hope to have the investigation
wrapped up today but probably won't have it before the first of the week
as an angle in Mexico is giving trouble - the matter of Oswald's
getting $6500 from the Cuban Embassy and coming back to this country with
it; that we are not able to prove that fact; that we have information
he was there on September 18 and we are able to prove he was in New Orleans
on that date; that a story came in changing the date to September 28 and
he was in Mexico on the 28th. I related that the police have again arrested
Duran, a member of the Cuban Embassy; that they will hold her two or three
days; will confront her with the original informant; and will also try
a lie detector test on her.
The President then inquired if I pay any attention to the
lie detector test. I answered that I would not pay 100% attention to them;
that it was only a psychological asset in investigation; that I would not
want to be a part of sending a man to the chair on a lie detector test.
I explained that we have used them in bank investigations and a person
will confess before the lie detector test is finished, more or less fearful
it will show him guilty. I said the lie detector test has this psychological
advantage. I further stated that it is a misnomer to call it a lie detector
since the evaluation of the chart made by the machine is made by a human
being and any human being is apt to make the wrong interpretation.
I stated, if Oswald had lived and had take a lie detector
test, this with the evidence we have would have added that much strength
to the case; that these is no question he is the man.
I also told him that Rubenstein down there has offered to
take a lie detector test but his lawyer must be consulted first; that I
doubt the lawyer will allow him to do so; that he has a West Coast lawyer
somewhat like the Edward Bennett Williams type and almost as much of a
shyster.
The President asked if we have any relationship between the
two [Oswald and Rubenstein] as yet. I replied that at the present time
we have
- 2 -
Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan
not; that there was a story that the fellow had been in Rubenstein's
nightclub but it has not been confirmed. I told the President that Rubenstein
is a very seedy character, had a bad record - street brawls, fights, etc.;
that in Dallas, if a fellow came into his nightclub and could not pay his
bill completely, Rubenstein would beat him up and throw him out; that he
did not drink or smoke; that he was an egomaniac; that he likes to be in
the limelight; knew all of the police officers in the white light district;
let them come in and get food and liquor, etc.; and that is how I think
he got into police headquarters. I said if they ever made any move, the
pictures did not show it even when they saw him approach and he got right
up to Oswald and pressed the pistol against Oswald's stomach; that neither
officer on either side made any effort to grab Rubenstein - not until after
the pistol was fired. I said, secondly, the chief of police admits he moved
Oswald in the morning as a convenience and at the request of motion
picture people who wanted daylight. I said insofar as tying Rubenstein
and Oswald together, we have not yet done so; that there are a number of
stories which tied Oswald to the Civil Liberties Union in New York in which
he applied for membership and to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee which
is pro-Castro, directed by communists, and financed to some extent by the
Castro Government.
The
basement of Police Headquarters was deep inside the building, and the light
outside was irrelevant.
|
The President asked how many shots were fired, and I told
him three. He then asked if any were fired at him. I said no, that three
shots were fired at the President and we have them. I stated that our ballistic
experts were able to prove the shots were fired by this gun; that the President
was hit by the first and third bullets and the second hit the Governor;
that there were three shots; that one complete bullet
rolled out of the President's head; that it tore a large part of
the President's head off; that in trying to massage
his heart on the way into the hospital they loosened the bullet which fell
on the stretcher and we have that.
No
bullet rolled out of the President's head. It was found on a hospital
gurney, having either been planted there (conspiracy version) or having
fallen out of John Connally's thigh (lone assassin version). No one
tried to massage JFK's heart on the way to the hospital.
FBI firearms expert Frazier was able to fire three accurate
shots in 4.5 seconds, not three.
|
He then asked were they aimed at the President. I replied
they were aimed at the President, no question about that.
I further advised him that we have also tested the fact you
could fire those three shots in three seconds.
I explained that there is a story out that there must have been more than
one man to fire several shots but we have proven it could be done by one
man.
Connally's
orientation in the seat was irrelevant to Kennedy getting hit.
|
The President then asked how it happened that Connally was
hit. I explained that Connally turned to the President when the first shot
was fired and in that turning he got hit. The President then asked, if
Connally had not been in his seat, would the President have been hit by
the second shot. I said yes.
- 3 -
Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan
The
gun was found on the sixth floor of the Depository.
|
I related that on the fifth floor of
the building where we found the gun and the wrapping paper we found
three empty shells that had been fired and one that had not been fired;
that he had four but didn't fire the fourth; then threw the gun aside;
went down the steps; was seen by a police officer; the manager told the
officer that Oswald was all right, worked there; they let him go; he got
on a bus; went to his home and got a jacket; then
came back downtown, walking; the police officer who was killed stopped
him, not knowing who he was; and he fired and killed the police officer.
Oswald
did not come back downtown, but walked into a commercial section of Oak
Cliff.
|
The President asked if we can prove that and I answered yes.
I further related that Oswald then walked another
two blocks; went to the theater; the woman selling tickets was so
suspicious - said he was carrying a gun when he went into the theater -
that she notified the police; the police and our man went in and located
Oswald. I told him they had quite a struggle with Oswald but that he was
subdued and shown out and taken to police headquarters.
The
Texas Theatre was eight blocks, not two blocks, from 10th and Patton where
Tippit was killed.
|
I advised the President that apparently Oswald had come down
the steps from the fifth floor; that
apparently the elevator was not used.
The President then indicated our conclusions are: (1) he
is the one who did it; (2) after the President was hit, Governor Connally
was hit; (3) the President would have been hit three
times except for the fact that Governor Connally turned after the first
shot and was hit by the second; (4) whether he was connected with
the Cuban operation with money we are trying to nail down. I told him that
is what we are trying to nail down; that we have copies of the correspondence;
that none of the letters dealt with any indication of violence or assassination;
that they were dealing with a visa to go back to Russia.
I advised the President that his wife had been very hostile,
would not cooperate and speaks only Russian; that yesterday she said, if
we could give assurance she would be allowed to remain in the country,
she would cooperate; and that I told our agents to give that assurance
and sent a Russian-speaking agent to Dallas last night to interview her.
I said I do not know whether or not she has any information but we would
learn what we could.
The President asked how Oswald had access to the
fifth floor of the building. I replied that he had access to all
floors. The President asked where was his office and I stated he did not
have any particular place; that he
- 4 -
Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan
was not situated in any particular place; that he was just a general
packer of requisitions that came in for books from Dallas schools; that
he would have had proper access to the fifth and sixth floors whereas usually
the employees were down on lower floors. The President then inquired if
anybody saw him on the fifth floor, and I
stated he was seen by one of the workmen before the assassination.
The President then asked if we got a picture taken of him
shooting the gun and I said no. He asked what was the picture sold for
$25,000, and I advised him this was a picture of the parade showing Mrs.
Kennedy crawling out of the back seat; that there was no Secret Service
Agent on the back of the car; that in the past they have added steps on
the back of the car and usually had an agent on either side standing on
the bumper; that I did not know why this was not done - that the President
may have requested it; that the bubble top was not up but I understand
the bubble top was not worth anything because it was made entirely of plastic;
that I had learned much to my surprise that the Secret Service does not
have any armored cars.
The President asked if I have a bulletproof car and I told
him I most certainly have. I told him we use it here for my own use and,
whenever we have any raids, we make use of the bulletproof car on them.
I explained that it is a limousine which has been armorplated
and that it looks exactly like any other car. I stated I think the President
ought to have a bulletproof car; that from all I understand the Secret
Service has had two cars with metal plates underneath the car to take care
of hand grenades or bombs thrown out on the street. I said this is European;
that there have been several such attempts on DeGaulle's life; but they
do not do that in this country; that all assassinations have been with
guns; and for that reason I think very definitely the President ought to
always ride in a bulletproof car; that it certainly would prevent anything
like this ever happening again; but that I do not mean a sniper could not
snipe him from a window if he were exposed.
The President asked if I meant on his ranch he should be
in a bulletproof car. I said I would think so; that the little car we rode
around in when I was at the ranch should be bulletproofed; that it ought
to be done very quietly. I told him we have four bulletproof cars in the
Bureau: one on the West Coast, one in New York and two here. I said this
could be done quietly without publicity and without pictures taken of it
if handled properly and I think he should have one on his ranch.
- 5 -
Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan
The President then asked if I think all the entrances should
be guarded. I replied by all means, that he had almost to be in the
capacity of a so-called prisoner because without that security anything
could be done. I told him lots of phone calls had been received over
the last four or five days about threats on his life; that I talked to
the Attorney General about the funeral procession from the White House
to the Cathedral; that I was opposed to it. The President remarked
that the Secret Service told them not to but the family wanted to do it.
I stated that was what the Attorney General told me but I
was very much opposed to it. I further related that I saw the procession
from the Capitol to the White House on Pennsylvania and, while they had
police standing on the curbs, when the parade came, the police turned around
and looked at the parade.
The President then stated he is going to take every precaution
he can; that he wants to talk to me; and asked if I would put
down my thoughts. He stated I was more than head of the FBI - I was
his brother and personal friend; that he knew I did not want anything
to happen to his family; that he has more confidence in me than anybody
in town; that he would not embroil me in a jurisdictional dispute; but
that he did want to have my thoughts on the matter to advocate as his own
opinion.
I stated I would be glad to do this for him and that I would
do anything I can. The President expressed his appreciation.
|
Very truly yours,
[signed J. E. H.]
John Edgar Hoover
Director
|
|
- 6 -
