NAME Jim Garrison             Date 11/8/78           Time 11:00 am    
Address Federal Court House               Place New Orleans, La.            


Gary Cornwell, Bob Buras, and myself interviewed Garrison
for approximately 45 minutes in his office at the Federal
Courthouse in New Orleans.

Garrison began the conversation with a lengthy recounting
of his efforts during 1967-69 to re-investigate the
Kennedy assassination and prosecute Clay Shaw.  Garrison
spoke in general terms about the power of the CIA and FBI
and their ability to "control and evade" the
investigative resources of any other body, including a
District Attorney's office or a Congressional committee. 
Garrison stated that he assumes that the Select Committee
has learned of this unchallengeable power and has met
with the same frustration that he did.

Garrison spoke in somber tones about his investigation,
saying that he had done his best under very difficult
circumstances, and had of course made a few mistakes in
the process.

During the course of Garrison's long monologue about the
power of the federal government, particularly the CIA, it
was most difficult to ask him specific questions;
Garrison would continue to talk without responding to a
question on most occasions when they were asked.

In response to the question of exactly when and why he
first began re-investigating the Kennedy in 1966,
Garrison gave a very vague answer, stating that he simply
became interested in some manner with David Ferrie and
Dean Andrews' 1964 story about a mysterious "Clem
Bertrand."  Garrison would not elaborate.

In response to the question of how he came to obtain
David Ferrie's phone records of January to October of
1963, Garrison stated that he asked for and received them
from Marcello's attorney G. Wray Gill.  He indicated that
he had long known Gill.  He stated that Gill drew a line
through his own calls listed on the bills, and thus
Ferrie's calls were the other ones listed on the bill; as
they had not shared an office.  When asked if he had ever
asked Gill why he had not turned over Ferrie's calls from
November 1963 (which were not included) Garrison at first
stated "I don't know."  When the question was repeated,
with the comment that he must have viewed the absence of
the November 1963 calls disturbing, Garrison stated that
he thinks that he did ask Gill about the missing 

          Mike Ewing           

 Date Transcribed November 26, 1978


November billing, and that Gill stated that they were
missing.  When asked if he followed it up, perhaps by
asking Gill to make a further search for the records,
Garrison said he couldn't recall.

Garrison also began speaking of the various organized
crime angles of the CIA-Mafia plots to assassinate
Castro, noting that he did not know of such plots during
his 1967 probe.  Garrison stated that he views the plots
as very important; that he had not realized that the CIA
and the Cuban exiles could be connected through the mafia
to that extent.  Garrison stated that he would have
pursued those plots in depth if he had known of them at
the time.  Garrison at this point remarked that he has
been intrigued by the "recurring pattern" and "recurring
associations" between various people in the case and the
city of Las Vegas.  He stated that Trafficante's man,
Lewis McWillie, ended up working in Las Vegas, and that
McWillie was a close friend of Jack Ruby's.  He stated
that John Roselli was from Las Vegas, and was also in
organized crime, and that another friend of Ruby's ended
up in Las Vegas.

At that point, it was pointed out that some people have
noted that each of Garrison's
original key witnesses in his Kennedy probe had
themselves had a recurring pattern of associations: David
Ferrie, Dean Andrews, G. Wray Gill, and Jack Martin. 
Namely, that each had been employed by Carlos Marcello at
one time.  When asked if he had ever noted this common
association, Garrison stated that he had.  He went on to
state that at one point early in his investigation he had
considered looking into a possible connection to the
President's assassination involving Marcello, noting that
Ferrie had been somewhat close to him.  Garrison stated
however that "that trail didn't lead anywhere; we could
find no leads" to pursue it and thus dropped the
Marcello possibility.  Garrison stated that if he had
found any information relating to Marcello, he would have
definitely pursued it.

When asked if he believed Marcello was a man capable of
having President Kennedy murdered, Garrison did not
directly answer the question.  Garrison stated that he
has "certainly heard" that Marcello may have once been
involved in some kind of criminal activity years ago.  He
stated that he has some reason to believe that some of
Marcello's money was obtained through criminal acts many
years ago.  Garrison further stated that he has heard of
allegations linking Marcello to organized crime and the
Mafia, but does not know if they are true.  He stated
that he has heard over the years that Marcello may be a
man of significant wealth, and may in fact be one of
Louisiana's wealthier citizens.  He stated that Marcello
is not active in real estate and is a businessman.

When asked again if he believes that Marcello had the
motive and means to assassinate President Kennedy,
Garrison again did not respond to the question, and began
talking about another subject at length.                              

Garrison was shown the alleged David Ferrie flight plan
listing a passenger named "Hidell."  When asked if he
remembers this item from his files, Garrison stated that
he believes so.  After examining it at length, Garrison
stated that it was from his files but that he cannot
recall whether or not his staff was able to authenticate

Garrison further stated that he tends to think that they
were never able to determine if the document was genuine. 
He stated, after reviewing it again at length, that it
looked quite credible, and that it made sense in some
ways.  He also stated that his staff had found that
Ferrie sometimes did not file flight plans.  He said that
he hopes the Select Committee pursues the document.

At one point, Garrison also stated that the federal
government has enormous power to "discredit" a person,
particularly the CIA, and that he was the subject of such
discrediting actions during his investigation.  He stated
that he was even "linked" to bribes from Carlos Marcello
in the national press, articles which he believes were
not coincidental because they "were so closely
coordinated in timing."  He stated that the articles
alleged that he had protected Marcello for a number of
years as District Attorney of New Orleans.  Garrison
stated that if this were true, and if he had been bribed
by Marcello, "I would have retired on the money long ago. 
I wouldn't have this job."  When asked if he had ever met
Marcello, Garrison stated that he believes he may have
met him once or twice on the street or at a political

Garrison was also asked what he could recall about Fred
Lee Crisman, a onetime suspect of his in the JFK case. 
Garrison stated that he viewed Crisman as an important
figure, and would like to investigate him further.  He
stated that Crisman had apparent CIA connections, as well
as important rightwing connections, and money.  He also
stated that his staff had questioned Crisman at one point
for over four hours.  He stated that he hopes the Select
Committee would pursue the matter.

Garrison ended the conversation stating that he had to
return to court business.  The conversation ran 15
minutes longer than the 30 minutes which Garrison had
agreed to allot for the interview.

Garrison asked if we had read his book, and stated that
his basic case and material is all laid out in the book,
and that he believes it would be of the most help.  He
also asked if we would like another copy of the book, and
gave us what he said was the last copy of it in his

Garrison apologized for not having more time to discuss
the case, and stated that he wished the Committee the
best of luck, stating that he will always believe that
"it is important to know who killed Jack Kennedy and

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