TESTIMONY OF SIDNEY EVANS, JR.
The testimony of Sidney Evans, Jr., was taken at 2:10 p.m. on March 31, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Mr. Sidney Evans, Jr. Mr. Evans, my name is Leon D. Hubert, I am a member of the advisory staff of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy. Under the provisions of the Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take the sworn deposition from you. I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular, as to you, Mr. Evans, the nature of the inquiry is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry, particularly as to the whereabouts of Jack Ruby around--on the morning of November 24. Now, did you receive a letter from the General Counsel of the President's Commission, Mr. J. Lee Rankin?
Mr. EVANS. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Such a letter was addressed to you and apparently miscarried somehow, but in any case----
Mr. EVANS. Might have went to those apartments. See, I was working out of Houston, and they cut the run and I had to transfer, and that was the reason that the three of us was sharing the apartment there.
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Mr. HUBERT. Let me state this to you. Under the rules adopted by the Commission, you are entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of the deposition, and it was sent out by mail, but apparently hasn't reached you. The rules of the Commission also provide that you can waive that notice if you want to do so, and I will ask you now if you are willing to waive that 3-day notice and let us take your deposition?
Mr. EVANS. It don't matter. I want to get it over with. I done lost too much already.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, would you stand and raise your right hand so that I can administer the oath? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. EVANS. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you please state your name, Mr. Evans.
Mr. EVANS. Sidney Evans, Jr.
Mr. HUBERT. And your age?
Mr. EVANS. Thirty-seven, I think.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you reside, sir?
Mr. EVANS. Retired?
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you live?
Mr. EVANS. 2205 Marvel. M-a-r-v-e-1.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that in Dallas?
Mr. EVANS. Irving, Tex.
Mr. HUBERT. Irving, Tex.?
Mr. EVANS. Uh-huh, that is----
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation, sir?
Mr. EVANS. Line driver for Red Ball Motor Freight.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so employed?
Mr. EVANS. Since 1958.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. EVANS. Six years.
Mr. HUBERT. In November of 1963, where did you live?
Mr. EVANS. My home is in Houston, but I was still at the Marsalis Apartments.
Mr. HUBERT. Where is that located, that Marsalis Apartments?
Mr. EVANS. 232 Ewing, I believe, or, I don't know.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you say 223 South Ewing Street?
Mr. EVANS. Well, I guess.
Mr. HUBERT. What apartment did you have?
Mr. EVANS. 204.
Mr. HUBERT. And I think you said you shared that with somebody?
Mr. EVANS. Two other drivers.
Mr. HUBERT. Who are they?
Mr. EVANS. Jack Scritchfield and Malcom Slaughter.
Mr. HUBERT. How long had you been living there with these men, sharing that apartment?
Mr. EVANS. Well, I believe I only stayed there 2 months.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, it was a stopoff place on your runs that you make as a driver, is that right?
Mr. EVANS. Well, you see, they have a bunkhouse, and we were staying in the bunkhouse, but the company said that we can't do that no more, and our families were still in Houston, so, we had to have a place to sleep when we were in a town, and sometimes wouldn't be there 1 day a week.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you estimate that you actually shared this apartment with these other two gentlemen for about 2 months?
Mr. EVANS. Two months.
Mr. HUBERT. And how often, or how many times, put it that way, during those 2 months prior to November 24, 1963, did you actually stay overnight or stay in the daytime in this apartment?
Mr. EVANS. I don't believe it was once a week.
Mr. HUBERT. About once a week? So, about eight or nine times, you think, during this period?
Mr. EVANS. Something like that. About the only time we would be there
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is if we came in Saturday, we would be there Saturday, or Saturday night and run out Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall being at that apartment on November 24, 1963, the Sunday after the President was assassinated?
Mr. EVANS. That was the morning Oswald was shot? Yes, all three of us was there that day.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion that day to see a man by the name of Jack Ruby?
Mr. EVANS. Well, I guess it was him.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, tell us how you----
Mr. EVANS. Well, you see----
Mr. HUBERT. Came to think it was him or guess it was him?
Mr. EVANS. Well, see, the church I have been going to is over in Irving, and they had one, I found out, over there on Marsails, Catholic Church there in Oak Cliff, and I thought they had 10 o'clock mass, but I went and they had a 9 and 11.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. EVANS. So, I come back to the apartment at--well, it was just a little bit before 10, and just as I got out of the car a fellow come out of the laundry, and he had his--both hands with laundry in them, and I stepped out of my car, and I kind of waited for him to go on up, and he kind of waited for me.
Mr. HUBERT. How close did you get to him?
Mr. EVANS. Well, we wasn't--right then only about 15 feet, something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. How was the man dressed?
Mr. EVANS. He was--had on a T-shirt, pants and T-shirt.
Mr. HUBERT. No hat?
Mr. EVANS. No hat.
Mr. HUBERT. And you said he had some laundry in his hands?
Mr. EVANS. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he live in that same apartment house?
Mr. EVANS. Well, I went up the stairs first, and he went up behind me, and we went up the first flight. I figured he lived on the first flight. I didn't know where he lived, so, when we went around and went up the second flight he was right behind me, and I said, "How are you this morning?" And he ignored me like I didn't--well, somebody going along with both arms full of laundry, I would open the door, because he was going up on the same floor, so, when he didn't speak with me, I said, "Well, heck with you." So, I walked on and he went in 207 there.
Mr. HUBERT. He went in apartment 207? Was this laundry he had already clean, or what?
Mr. EVANS. Well, they had a--they've got a washer and dryer in the basement in the apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. He was coming up from the washateria?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he went into apartment 207?
Mr. EVANS. Yes. And, so, I went in. Two buddies were up, so, we ate breakfast and I went back to church at 11.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you had gone to try to catch the 10 o'clock mass?
Mr. EVANS. Yes; but didn't have at 10. Had to go at 11.
Mr. HUBERT. At what time did you leave your apartment?
Mr. EVANS. I left about a quarter of 11.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean the first time?
Mr. EVANS. About a quarter until 10.
Mr. HUBERT. Quarter to 10? And you got there and found out mass was at 9:30?
Mr. EVANS. No; it was 9. Just getting over.
Mr. HUBERT. Just getting over, so you just came on back to the apartment?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How long was it between the time you left your apartment and--until the time you got back on the first round when you found out----
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Mr. EVANS. Well, it only takes about six or seven blocks from the apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. You were driving?
Mr. EVANS. Driving. It takes less than----
Mr. HUBERT. So, you figure about 10 o'clock or a little before?
Mr. EVANS. A little before 10.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, have you subsequently seen pictures of Jack Ruby?
Mr. EVANS. I have seen pictures.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you seen him in person since?
Mr. EVANS. That is the only time I ever seen him.
Mr. HUBERT. You had never seen him before that date?
Mr. EVANS. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Never since?
Mr. EVANS. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you think that the man you saw that morning that you have just described was the same man that you have seen in the pictures?
Mr. EVANS. Well, I really didn't get a close look. All I know, he went in that apartment, and it is my understanding he had a roommate, but it might have been him.
Mr. HUBERT. What I wanted to ask is whether or not the pictures that you have seen in the newspapers since of a person now known as Jack Ruby was the same man, in your opinion, that you saw with the laundry in his hands at about 10 o'clock on November 24?
Mr. EVANS. Well, it could be. I mean, kind of--didn't have real thick hair on top.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I show you a series of pictures here, which for purposes of identification I am marking on the back as follows, "Dallas, Texas, March 31, 1964. Exhibit No. 5122, deposition of Sidney Evans, Jr.," and signing my name to it, and in order that the record may show that we are both talking about the same document, I will ask you to put your name under mine, after which, I will ask you some questions about it.
Mr. EVANS. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. I will ask you to turn the document over and look at those several photos there of a man and ask you if that is the man you saw carrying the laundry on the morning of November 24, at about 10 o'clock.
Mr. EVANS. Well, it looks like him. Of course, he didn't have on nothing but a T-shirt, white T-shirt when I saw him.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; what I was thinking about, his face----
Mr. EVANS. Well, you know, I just looked over my shoulder. He was coming up the stairs there behind me, and I said, "How are you this morning?" and he----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I take it that you looked at him several times, that is to say, you looked at him when you first saw him?
Mr. EVANS. I didn't really look at him.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what did you do? Offer to open the door----
Mr. EVANS. I just, you know, I spoke to him, and I--he was coming up the same floor I was going up and I never paid much--in fact, I----
Mr. HUBERT. At sometime you must have mentioned to somebody that you thought you had seen this man on that Sunday, and that he was Jack Ruby. Do you recall how that came about?
Mr. EVANS. Well, one of these buddies there, he told some newspaperman a bunch--that he told them all about that when I wasn't even there at the time.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean at the time that he told the story?
Mr. EVANS. He told them all about it.
Mr. HUBERT. We are talking about now, Malcom Slaughter, aren't we?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You had told Slaughter that you thought that man you had seen was Ruby?
Mr. EVANS. After we ate and I went back to the 11 o'clock mass, and it was close to 12 o'clock when I got back to the apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. EVANS. And just as soon as I opened the door these guys told me Oswald had been shot.
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Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. EVANS. And so, then, it wasn't long before 1 o'clock Life Magazine, and--man, they was out there taking picture, and newspapers, and they were taking pictures of the apartment and interviewing different people there.
Mr. HUBERT. So, it was at that time that you told Mr. Slaughter that you thought you had seen Ruby that morning?
Mr. EVANS. Yes; I told him what happened there and the guy had went in that apartment there.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know his roommate, I think you mentioned something about a roommate?
Mr. EVANS. I understand the papers said there were two of them staying there.
Mr. HUBERT. But you don't know of your own knowledge?
Mr. EVANS. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you ever seen the man who was supposed to be his roommate?
Mr. EVANS. In fact, we was not in there, and sleeping in the daytime mostly when we was there, so I really don't know anyone there.
Mr. HUBERT. Anyhow, this man that you saw, who you think might have been Ruby, you never had seen him before nor have you seen him after?
Mr. EVANS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And your testimony is that this document identified as Exhibit 5122, looks like him?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. But that he had on a T-shirt instead of a tie and the----
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Then did he have a hat on?
Mr. EVANS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see his hair?
Mr. EVANS. Well, it was kind of thin there down the middle. That looks a little darker than what I remembered. Seemed like he was sort of grayish.
Mr. HUBERT. How tall a man was he?
Mr. EVANS. He was a lot shorter than I was, five something.
Mr. HUBERT. How tall are you?
Mr. EVANS. Six.
Mr. HUBERT. You are 6 foot?
Mr. EVANS. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You say 5 foot what?
Mr. EVANS. Five six or----
Mr. HUBERT. What sort of build?
Mr. EVANS. Stout and husky.
Mr. HUBERT. How--powerful looking man?
Mr. EVANS. Well----
Mr. HUBERT. Strong looking?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you anything else that you know?
Mr. EVANS. That is all I know. Well, I know Slaughter told me that he's seen him dressed up not long after that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did I understand you to say that Mr. Slaughter made some comment about this man known as Jack Ruby----
Mr. EVANS. Well, they told me he did. I don't know whether he did or not.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he tell you?
Mr. EVANS. Said that he--not long after I had left and went back to church, he said a man had---dressed up, and walked by our apartment, and he spoke to him, or something, I don't know.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say that he thought it was Ruby?
Mr. EVANS. They said they thought it was.
Mr. HUBERT. When did they say they had seen him?
Mr. EVANS. Well, if it was him it was somewhere right at 11 o'clock.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he tell you that?
Mr. EVANS. After we got back, found out what happened.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, told you on that same day?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When you told him that you thought you had seen Ruby earlier
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when he was carrying in laundry, he told you that he thought he had seen him dressed up a little later?
Mr. EVANS. Uh-huh, that was after Oswald was shot, and they was out there taking pictures.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever advise the FBI agent that you had seen Ruby around the apartment, although you did not know him personally?
Mr. EVANS. No, sir; I never did. The only time I saw him was that one time.
Mr. HUBERT. If it was Ruby? Right?
Mr. EVANS. Right. There was a landlady there, after that was all over there, she told us that--well, in fact, these two guys that I room with had rented the apartment, and I was out of town, and called me long distance and wanted to know if I wanted to share it with them, because it was pretty expensive for two men, and no more than we stayed there I said, well, I had to stay somewhere, and had to have a phone so that the company could call me. Something that you--that they require is that you have to have a telephone.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the landlady?
Mr. EVANS. She said during the summer months he would climb up on the roof and sunbath up there.
Mr. HUBERT. Who? Ruby?
Mr. EVANS. Ruby, whatever-----
Mr. HUBERT. She tell you that?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is her name? Do you know?
Mr. EVANS. No; I don't, but they moved a week or two after that. It seemed like there was somebody interviewing them--it was a young man and his wife. They moved out in Irving some place, but I don't know where they moved to.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean that is the third partner?
Mr. EVANS. No; that is the landlady or the landlord and his wife, or the people that rented the apartments.
Mr. HUBERT. And you say they moved and went to live in Irving?
Mr. EVANS. Somewhere, and said he bought them a place.
Mr. HUBERT. So, they don't manage the apartment any more?
Mr. EVANS. I guess it was about 2 weeks.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't know their names?
Mr. EVANS. No; see, these two friends of mine, they had rented the apartment, and they had talked to the landlady and actually only supposed to be two people staying in there. In fact, they would be--I would pay them my share and they would pay the note.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where Slaughter lives now?
Mr. EVANS. Well, he still lives in Houston, and they have given up the apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. Oh, they have?
Mr. EVANS. Too expensive for two of them.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what his address is in Houston, or how he could be reached? Well, he works for the same company that you do?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. That is the Red Ball Motor Freight?
Mr. EVANS. Red Ball Motor Freight.
Mr. HUBERT. Where is it located in Houston, the main office?
Mr. EVANS. 4000--4004 Irving Street, Houston.
Mr. HUBERT. Irving, Boulevard, Houston, Tex. Now, I think you have given the name of the other man.
Mr. EVANS. Scritchfield. Of course, he didn't----
Mr. HUBERT. Scritchfield?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where he is?
Mr. EVANS. He is here in Dallas. I mean, he is staying up here. I don't know.
Mr. HUBERT. He could be reached through your company, too, is that right?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir.
Mr. EVANS. Isn't nothing that he knows about it. The only one would be
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Malcolm, and he said he seen a man who was dressed up that looked like him that he spoke to outside the apartment there. I think he went down to get a letter or something, or check the mail, or something.
Mr. HUBERT. Who did? Slaughter?
Mr. EVANS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Had Slaughter indicated that he knew Ruby?
Mr. EVANS. No; he didn't know him. Just like I was, just stayed there maybe one day a week, you know, and----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, all right; I think that's it.
Mr. EVANS. Didn't know anyone there.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, have you been interviewed prior to today by any member of the Commission's staff?
Mr. EVANS. No, sir; I believe there was a Mr. Page, or something--somebody----
Mr. HUBERT. FBI man?
Mr. EVANS. Talked to me.
Mr. HUBERT. I am talking about a member of the advisory staff of the Commission itself?
Mr. EVANS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, prior to the commencement of this interview--I mean this deposition, there was a short interview between you and me. Did anything occur during that interview which we have not brought out in the deposition?
Mr. EVANS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. I think that is all, sir.