The testimony of Clyde Franklin Goodson was taken at 2:45 p.m., on July 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Sam Kelley, assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Mr. Clyde F. Goodson. Mr. Goodson, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel of the President's Commission.
Under the provisions of Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and the joint resolution of Congress, No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the President's Commission in conformance with that Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you.
I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relevant to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular as to you, Mr. Goodson, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry.
Now, Mr. Goodson, I think you have appeared today by virtue of the general request addressed to Chief Curry by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, general counsel on the staff of the President's Commission, asking that he make available for deposition certain officers of the police force, is that correct?
Mr. GOODSON. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. Under the rules of the Commission, every witness is entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of their deposition. In this case, of course you have not had that 3-day notice.
But the rules also provide that any witness may waive the notice and proceed to testify without the notice, and I ask you now since you have not received the written notice, whether you are willing to waive the notice and proceed to testify now?
Mr. GOODSON. I am.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand and take the oath?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?


Mr. GOODSON. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. State your full name, please.
Mr. GOODSON. Clyde Franklin Goodson.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your address?
Mr. GOODSON. 6529 Oleta Dr.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Mr. GOODSON. A policeman for the city of Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so occupied?
Mr. GOODOSON. About 7 1/2 years.
Mr. HUBERT. How old are you?
Mr. GOODSON. Twenty-nine.
Mr. GOODSON, I have just a moment ago handed to you a report of an interview of you by FBI Agent Vincent Drain, dated June 18, 1964, consisting of one page, which I have marked for the purpose of identification on the right-hand margin as follows:
"Dallas, Tex., July 14, 1964, Exhibit No. 1, deposition of Clyde F. Goodson," under which I have written my name.
Have you read this document, sir?
Mr. GOODSON. I have.
Mr. HUBERT. Does that correctly state the entire contents of the interview and the substance of the interview?
Mr. HUBERT. Are the facts stated therein, so far as you remember, correct?
Mr. HUBERT. How long had you known Jack Ruby prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. GOODSON. I would say the first time I saw him was approximately 5 years ago.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you come to meet him?
Mr. GOODSON. The district that I worked for about 6 years was in the downtown area, and on the edge of the South Dallas area, and by answering calls in that vicinity and routine checks of his place of business.
Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about the Vegas Club?
Mr. GOODSON. The Carousel.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever meet him in connection with the Vegas or at the Vegas Club?
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any social meetings?
Mr. HUBERT. Is it correct to say then that the only time you saw him during the past 5 years, which is from the time you first met him, was in connection with some offcial police business?
Mr. GOODSON. It was; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How many times during those last 5 years do you suppose you have seen Ruby?
Mr. GOODSON. Oh, I guess just an estimate, six or seven times.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the last time prior to November 22, 1963, that you saw him, do you suppose?
Mr. GOODSON. I would say about 3 months before; 2 or 3 months before.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the occasion?
Mr. GOODSON. Not specifically. I remember 2 or 3 months before then, my partner and I--I don't recall who I was working with at that time answered a call there on Commerce Street at one of the bars, who was supposed to be drunk and causing a disturbance. They said he left and went next door, which was another small bar, and we went there, and the people said he had been there, but had just left out. So .the Carousel was the next place, and we walked in and checked it.
Mr. HUBERT. You were looking for a drunk?
Mr. GOODSON. We were looking for a drunk.
Mr. HUBERT. That had been reported causing a disturbance?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. And you went into the Carousel finally?
Mr. GOODSON. We went into the Carousel.


Mr. HUBERT. You saw Ruby then?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes; he was up there, and I just talked to him for a few minutes, the most I have ever talked to him, and then we left.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he know your name?
Mr. GOODSON. I don't think he did.
Mr. HUBERT. You knew his name?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, I knew him when I saw him; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know him by name, or merely by sight?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, I knew him by name and by sight. I knew who he was when I saw him.
Mr. HUBERT. Other than the five or six times during the last 5 years that you did see him on official duty, did you see him anytime unofficially in the sense of just walking down the street or passing him or saying hello, or passing the time of day, or something like that?
Mr. HUBERT. You say you did not go to his club on a social basis?
Mr. HUBERT. Now I think you were on duty at the entrance of the homicide bureau on the third floor of the Dallas Police Department building starting at 5:30 p.m., is that correct?
Mr. GOODSON. Approximately 5:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you come on duty at that time?
Mr. GOODSON. No; I had been on duty all day.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been up on the third floor prior to 5:30?
Mr. GOODSON. No, sir; I hadn't.
Mr. HUBERT. Where had you been ?
Mr. GOODSON. I was working my regular district during the day.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was that?
Mr. GOODSON. It was district No. 103. Starts on the edge of the downtown area and goes south on Corinth Street.
Mr. HUBERT. Prior to 5:30 on November 22 you had no occasion to be in the headquarters building at all?
Mr. HUBERT. But you were called in to perform some duty there?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. HUBERT. What was that duty?
Mr. GOODSON. They assigned me to work at the door there in the homicide bureau.
Mr. HUBERT. Who assigned you?
Mr. GOODSON. Sergeant Richardson.
Mr. HUBERT. Who?
Mr. GOODSON. Richardson.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give you any instructions?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes, sir. He told me that I was to stand at the door and to let no one in except police officers that were investigating the case, and FBI, and Secret Service.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say you were to stand there, what did they mean?
Mr. GOODSON. I stood directly in front of the door.
Mr. HUBERT. What door?
Mr. GOODSON. To the homicide bureau.
Mr. HUBERT. Was anyone else with you?
Mr. GOODSON. The officers up and down the hallway, but I don't recall anyone standing right there at the door.
Mr. HUBERT. No one was put in a stationary position such as you were?
Mr. GOODSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay there?
Mr. GOODSON. I stayed there, oh, to about 7:30 or so; around 7:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Now how did you fix the time that you began that duty at 5:30?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, my regular assignment ended at 3:30, and it was about 4 o'clock before I got over to the city hall, and I was told to report to the detail room where I stayed some 40 minutes, I would say, and then I was assigned up there on the door to the homicide bureau.


Mr. HUBERT. How did you fix the time when you left that detail at 7:30?
Mr. GOODSON. It was just as I recall, it was around 7:30. No specific reason to say that it was exactly 7:30. I don't recall looking at the exact time. We had to check off what time we left.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you told to leave by anyone?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes, sir; I was relieved by another officer.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember his name?
Mr. GOODSON. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. HUBERT. Then you were allowed to go home?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you did so?
Mr. HUBERT. Now did you see Jack Ruby on the third floor of the Dallas City Jail during the period 5:30 to 7:30 when you were standing guard before the homicide bureau door?
Mr. GOODSON. No; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Now I think you have mentioned that you, about 6 p.m., saw a man that you thought resembled Jack Ruby?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, I didn't say he resembled Jack Ruby. I said that possibly someone would mistake him for Jack Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. You said that that was about 6 o'clock?
Mr. GOODSON. Approximately. Just estimating from the time I had been there until the time this person came up.
Mr. HUBERT. Now this person that you referred to is the one I think you say that fitted the description of Jack Ruby?
Mr. GOODSON. He resembled him some, as far as age and height and so forth.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he do when he came up?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, when he came up there, he was about two-thirds drunk, and he was kind of loud, and he came over to the door and was as though he was going to walk in, and I asked him who he was, and he began asking me what had happened and what was going on and what was being done so far as what had happened, and he said that he wanted inside, and I asked him who he was, and he said he was with a newspaperman from the White House press, and he never did show me any identification.
Mr. HUBERT. He did show you?
Mr. GOODSON. He did not. I told him that he would have to wait in the hallway with the other news people.
Mr. HUBERT. Now were you aware that they were checking the people on the third floor for identification as news people?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, I didn't know whether they were or not. They had some officers assigned there at the elevator and the stairway. I don't know what their job was.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you call attention to anyone that this man you have just described had attempted to get into the office, and that he was in what you considered to be a drunken condition, or semidrunken condition?
Mr. GOODSON. No; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he just go away then?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, he stood around there for quite awhile talking to the other newsmen.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he passing out cards or anything of that sort?
Mr. GOODSON. Not that I saw.
Mr. HUBERT. How was he dressed, do you remember?
Mr. GOODSON. He had on a suit and dark-colored---
Mr. HUBERT. Hat?
Mr. GOODSON. No; he didn't have on a hat. Wore glasses. His hair was dark, but it had a lot of gray around the temples, around the edge of his hairline.
Mr. HUBERT. As I understand it, you are positive that that man was not Jack Ruby?
Mr. GOODSON. This person was not Jack Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. What was there about him that you thought made him fit the description of Jack Ruby?


Mr. GOODSON. He was approximately the same age and same height and built the same way.
Mr. HUBERT. Same hair?
Mr. GOODSON. Well, I don't believe Ruby would have as much gray in his hair as he had.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you on duty any day after the 22d?
Mr. GOODSON. Was I on duty, you mean?
Mr. HUBERT. At the city hall, at the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. GOODSON. On the door up there of the homicide bureau?
Mr. HUBERT. Or any place?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes, sir; I was. That was on a Saturday, I believe. I was off Sunday and Monday, and I came back the next Tuesday.
Mr. HUBERT. Well now, the days where you were posted at the door before homicide bureau, was that on the 22d or 23d?
Mr. GOODSON. It was on the 22d.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, on the 23d were you on duty that Saturday?
Mr. GOODSON. I was off Sunday and Monday. That was on a Saturday, the 23d?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. GOOSON. I was on duty then.
Mr. HUBERT. Where were you on duty? At headquarters?
Mr. GOODSON. No, sir; I was working my regular district.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not see Jack Ruby during any time on the 22d, 23d, or 24th?
Mr. GOODSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Detective Sandy Standifer?
Mr. GOODSON. Not that I recall; no.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you report to anyone that you had seen a man that fit the description of Jack Ruby, as you have stated, at the time and place that you have stated? But that he was not Jack Ruby? Other than the statement the FBI?
Mr. HUBERT. Have you heard that there are reports that Jack Ruby did attempt to get into the homicide office ?
Mr. GOODSON. Just rumors is all I have heard of it.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you made any report to anyone concerning your seeing this man who fit the description of Jack Ruby, but it was not he?
Mr. GOODSON. I don't think he fit the description of him close enough that anyone that knew him or had seen him before--I don't believe he fit the description close enough to assume that that was him.
That is the only person I could think of that would even come close to resembling him, would be up there that I saw there.
Mr. HUBERT. That is, that anyone that knew Jack Ruby at all would know immediately that this man was not Jack Ruby?
Mr. GOODSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir, I think that is all. Can you think of anything that we have discussed off the record? I don't believe there have been any off-the-record discussion that has not been made a part of this deposition.
Mr. GOODSON. No; not that I can think of.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir, thank you very much for coming down.

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