TESTIMONY OF ELENA A. HALL

The testimony of Elena A. Hall was taken at 5 p.m., on March 24, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. LIEBELER - Mrs. Hall, would you please rise and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the testimony that you are about to give?
Mrs. HALL - I sure do.
Mr. LIEBELER - Mrs. Hall, my name is Wesley J. Liebeler. This is Albert Jenner. We are both of the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy.
The Staff has been authorized to take testimony from you and from other witnesses by the Commission pursuant to authority which has been granted to the Commission by Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress 137. it is my understanding that Mr. Rankin, general counsel of the Commission set you a letter last week and included copies of those two documents, as well as a copy of the rules of procedure pertaining to the taking of testimony. Did you receive that letter?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - With that letter were included copies of those documents referred to, isn't that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - We want to question you today about your knowledge of Lee

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and Marina Oswald, which knowledge you obtained as a result of your association with them after they returned, after Oswald returned from Russia some time in 1962. I understand that your association with Oswald continued over a period of time and that you last saw him at approximately Easter of 1963?
Mrs. HALL - Yes, that is right.
Mr. LIEBELER - First of all, will you state your full name for the record?
Mrs. HALL - Elena A. Hall.
Mr. LIEBELER - What is your address, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL - 4760 Trail Lake Drive.
Mr. LIEBELER - in Fort Worth, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Fort Worth.
Mr. LIEBELER - You are married to Mr. John H. Hall, isn't that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - You and Mr. Hall operate a dental laboratory in Fort Worth, isn't that right?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Where were you born in Iran? in what town?
Mrs. HALL - Tehran.
Mr. LIEBELER - When were you born?
Mrs. HALL - 1926.
Mr. LIEBELER - it is the Commission's understanding that your parents were originally from Russia, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - When did they move to Tehran?
Mrs. HALL - 1920 or 1921.
Mr. LIEBELER - Where in Russia had they lived prior to that time?
Mrs. HALL - The last in Baku.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us briefly the reasons that prompted your parents to leave Russia and go to Teheran?
Mrs. HALL - The Communists. When the Communists started in, my father was over in the Russian Army in Siberia. He was a prisoner, and after he got out. he escaped, they came back. I mean they came to Iran.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did they eventually move to the United States?
Mrs. HALL - No; my mother was here in 1960, but she came just to visit and went back.
Mr. LIEBELER - Are they still living in Tehran?
Mrs. HALL - No; both are dead.
Mr. LIEBELER - Both are dead?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Tell us the circumstances surrounding your moving to the United States, if you would.
Mrs. HALL - Well, I worked for 10 years. I worked for dentists, and I knew a little bit of laboratory work. Then I decided to continue and have some kind of diploma, and that is why I came to the United States.
My best friends, they were coming to the United States. So they told me that there are some technology schools here in the United States that I can go and accomplish my dental technology, and that is why I came to New York and was in the dental technology school where I met John. So he wanted - instead of going back, I married him and came to Texas.
Mr. LIEBELER - When did you move to the United States, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL - 1957.
Mr. LIEBELER - 1957?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you tell us briefly what your educational background was in Tehran before you moved to the United States?
Mrs. HALL - High-school education. I was 6 years in French school and 5 years in Russian school.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you specialize in any special field during your education?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - it was just a general education?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.

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Mr. LIEBELER - After you married your husband in New York and subsequently moved to Dallas, or Fort Worth -
Mrs. HALL We were married in Fort Worth and I came here.
Mr. LIEBELER - During your husband's testimony, he said that you were first married in 19 -
Mrs. HALL - 1959.
Mr. LIEBELER - You were subsequently divorced and then remarried again in November of 1962, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you eventually meet Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife Marina Oswald?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you tell us in your own words and to the best of your recollection when you first met them, and the circumstances. Go right ahead and tell your own story of your acquaintance with the Oswalds right up until the last time you saw them. I will interrupt you as little as possible.
Mrs. HALL - Well, I was working for Patterson Porcelain Laboratory at that time when I met Oswald. Mrs. George Bouhe brought them to our house. At that time I was by myself. John wasn't there.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were you and your husband divorced at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; we were. George Bouhe, that is, thought that I could do something for Marina because she had a missing tooth, and I told him that I will try. Then I asked a couple of doctors and they couldn't do with that little money that George Bouhe offered. He offered $50 to $75, and said, "I will pay for it," but it was much more than that, so I could do nothing. And that was the first time I met him. It was sometime in July, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER - Of 1962?
Mrs. HALL - In July of 1962. After that I saw her, how poor they were. They really didn't have anything. She didn't have any clothes. So I told my friends, married friends, couple of them. They gave the money. And I asked another lady who gave me a lot of clothes for her. And in this way I start to learn sometimes - give her some money or buy her some clothes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you give Marina money from time to time?
Mrs. HALL - No; I didn't give her money. I bought clothes for her. George Bouhe gave them money and other people. I bought her clothes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who gave you money besides Mr. Bouhe?
Mrs. HALL - Mrs. Patterson, the lady that I worked for. I mean my employer's wife.
Mr. LIEBELER - What is her first name?
Mrs. HALL - Loraine Patterson.
Mr. LIEBELER - How much money did she give you, do you remember?
Mrs. HALL - I don't remember. It was $10, or $15.
Mr. LIEBELER - How much did Bouhe give you?
Mrs. HALL - Twenty dollars.
Mr. LIEBELER - You received that money to buy groceries for Marina, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - No; it was only for her clothes while they were living in Fort Worth and I mean not in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did anybody else give you any money for the Oswalds?
Mrs. HALL - No; I spent myself, too.
Mr. LIEBELER - For them?
Mrs. HALL - For them, yes. I didn't buy groceries there at that time. I bought little toys for the little girl, but I never did buy groceries until they moved to my house.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you estimate approximately how much money altogether you have spent for Marina's clothes, and such items as that before they moved out of the apartment in Fort Worth?
Mrs. HALL - My money or just general?
Mr. LIEBELER - Altogether. You said that you thought Bouhe had given you $20?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.

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Mr. LIEBELER - And Mrs. Patterson, $10 or $15, so that would have been $30 or $35?
Mrs. HALL - I spent probably $25 or $30 myself.
Mr. LIEBELER - So it would be $50 to $60?
Mrs. HALL - Something like that, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead with your story.
Mrs. HALL - Well, I was going to see her sometime in the lunchtime because it was very close to my work. They lived not very far from my work. And then after they - I think he lost his job in Fort Worth and he decided that there is better opportunity here in Dallas, to move.
And they couldn't, of course, afford it to move and bring her here with the child, not having a job and apartment, so I suggested, "Why don't you move to my house while he is in Dallas until he finds a job, and then you can move ?" So that's what they did.
Mr. LIEBELER - Marina moved to your house while Oswald was in Dallas looking for a job?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us approximately when Marina moved to your house?
Mrs. HALL - it was in the first week in October. I don't know exactly when it was, but it was the first week in October, sometime.
Mr. LIEBELER - I understand that you helped Marina move from the apartment in Fort Worth to your house in a pickup truck that you borrowed?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; Patterson had a pickup truck.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did anybody else help you, or just you and Marina did the moving?
Mrs. HALL - Lee still was there, so when we moved, he went to Dallas that night, that afternoon.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was there anybody besides you and Marina and Lee that helped you with the moving?
Mrs. HALL - No; nobody else. They didn't have nothing.
Mr. LIEBELER - There wasn't very much to move?
Mrs. HALL - No; the baby was sleeping in a suitcase. And then the first time when George went -
Mr. LIEBELER - George Bouhe?
Mrs. HALL - He saw this situation. He bought a little bed for the child and a couple of other things. He helped them very much. He was very nice about that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald seem to appreciate what Mr. Bouhe was doing for him?
Mrs. HALL - I don't think so. He didn't appreciate nothing, never. In fact, when she moved to my house one weekend on Saturday, I don't remember when, George Bouhe came and he brought a big carton of all kinds of groceries and vitamins for the baby and everything, so Lee came and he asked Marina, "Who brought all these groceries?" And he saw in the kitchen -
Mr. LIEBELER - This was while Marina was living at your house?
Mrs. HALL - While she was, yes. And said, "George Bouhe has bought," and he was real mad at him. He said, "You are living in her house, you are not living in his house. Why he brings groceries?" He was just strange man, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER - During the time that Marina lived at your house, did you purchase all the groceries and similar items for Marina and the child except for what Mr. Bouhe brought?
Mrs. HALL - Well, nobody else would do it. She was living in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald made no contributions whatsoever for the support of the family at that time?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did he offer to contribute?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us about how long Marina lived in your house?
Mrs. HALL - Well, she lived, I said in the first week in October they moved, she moved there. And then I had an accident in the middle of October and I stayed

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in the hospital 10 days. When I got out from the hospital, I think it was in the end of October, after my accident, I stayed home, I think, 3 or 4 days.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was Marina there at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; she was there. Then I went to New York on the 31st of October. I went to New York, and when I came back on the 15th, they were gone.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't know exactly when they moved out?
Mrs. HALL - No, no.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know whether Oswald lived in your house with Marina at any time that you were gone to New York or in the hospital?
Mrs. HALL - That - not that I know. I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever discuss that with Marina?
Mrs. HALL - I saw her after that time. I saw her only on Christmas one day and Easter, and it was real short visit, so we didn't talk about the past.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you know where Oswald lived at first when he moved to Dallas from Fort Worth?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I heard that he lived in YMCA.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who told you that?
Mrs. HALL - I heard from two friends.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember who particularly told you?
Mrs. HALL - Yes, Mrs. Clark.
Mr. LIEBELER - Mrs. Max Clark?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. And I think George Bouhe told me, or at least George Bouhe suggested him to stay in YMCA.

Mr. LIEBELER - You don't know of any other place that Oswald might have lived when he first went to Dallas other than the YMCA?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you then visit the Oswald's apartment on Elsbeth at any time in Dallas?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; one time we went. First time on Christmas Day. She borrowed my sewing machine, and on the first day of Christmas I bought a little toy for the baby and we went to visit them and I thought I bring my sewing machine but she said she wasn't finished with the sewing machine. So we went the first day of Easter again. John's parents lived in Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER - Your husband?
Mrs. HALL - Mother and father, they live here. And we went the second time and I brought the sewing machine. That was only twice I saw them after they moved from my house.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you know whether or not Marina used the sewing machine?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see her using it?
Mrs. HALL - No; I didn't see her using it, but after that when I brought it, I opened it and saw all this, she had probable difficulty with the stitches, and there is pieces of something in there, and she just sewing on it, and I just closed it and I never did touch it again.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see any clothes that Marina made with the sewing machine?
Mrs. HALL - She didn't make any clothes. But the clothes that friends of mine gave to her, lots of clothes, she was trying to alter them and things like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina know how to use the sewing machine?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; I think. She told me she could. I never did see her sewing, but she said she could.
Mr. LIEBELER - About the time that Marina lived in your house, did you understand that the Oswalds were having any marital difficulties?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I think she was stubborn, and he was just cruel to her, and they would argue for nothing, just nothing. And he would beat her all the time.
Mr. LIEBELER - Beat her?
Mrs. HALL - Oh, yes. In fact, first time when she came to my house with George Bouhe, she had black and blue over half of her face and I didn't ask

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at that time, but after she moved in my house, I said, Marina, what was on your face? And she told me that he beat her.
Mr. LIEBELER - The first time that Marina came to your house, can you remember exactly when that was?
Mrs. HALL - in July. Sometime in July.
Mr. LIEBELER - And you noticed even in July that she had been bruised, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - But it wasn't until October or November -
Mrs. HALL - October when she moved.
Mr. LIEBELER - That you learned that she had gotten those bruises as a result of her husband beating her, is that right?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - At the time in October that Marina lived in your house, did she discuss with you her marital relations with Oswald?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. Well, she is, I think she is very nice girl. And I told her, "Marina, you are in such a difficult financial situation, you'd better not have children for quite a while, and when you have a better financial situation, you can have them." And she said, "Well, I don't know."
And I told her, "if you want to, I have a lady doctor, Dr. Taylor. If you want me, I will take you there. She will give you some things." And she said, "No; I don't think so."
She said, "Our married life is so strange that I don't think I ever will have any children any more," because he was very cold to her.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina indicate at that time that she and Oswald did not have normal sexual relations.
Mrs. HALL - Very seldom. The thing that she told me, "Very seldom."
Mr. LIEBELER - Tell me everything that you can remember about that subject that Marina told you.
Mrs. HALL - That was the only thing that was worrying me, her to not have children, because they are in such bad shape, and that is the only thing she told me.
And I said, "if you think you want any more." So it is none of my business, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Is that all that Marina said about that subject?
Mrs. HALL - We didn't talk any more, because it was my suggestion to her to not have children, and she told me that, and that was all.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she ever tell you that Oswald would - was not very much of a man in that sense?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. That is what she told me.
Mr. LIEBELER - They very seldom had sexual relations?
Mrs. HALL - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever discuss that question with her any other time?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form an impression as to how Lee and Marina were getting along with each other at the time that Marina lived in your house, other than what we have already talked about?
Mrs. HALL - No. Couple of times I told her, "Why do you argue with him about little things," and she said, "Oh, because he is not a man." That is what she told me. For instance, I like hot peppers and he didn't like it. Well, is nothing wrong with a man who doesn't like peppers. John doesn't like it at all. And at the table they were eating, and I ate the peppers, and he wouldn't touch, and she said, "He is afraid of everything, hot peppers."
And he said, he don't like it, and they had argument about that. And after he left I said, Marina, you shouldn't do that because, well, some people like them and some don't."
Well, things like that, she would start with him and they had an argument. Probably if I wouldn't be there, they would have a fight or something.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever have the feeling that Marina was a good wife to Oswald, or did you have the feeling that she was not particularly a good wife?
Mrs. HALL - Well, she is a little bit lazy one, and she can sleep 48 hours a

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day. That is the only thing. And maybe they had trouble because of this and little things, like I said about the peppers and so on.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever see or hear of Marina making fun of Oswald in front of other people?
Mrs. HALL - Who?
Mr. LIEBELER - Marina making fun of Lee?
Mrs. HALL - Oh, yes; she would do it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you think of any specific examples?
Mrs. HALL - She always was complaining about him. He was not a man. He is afraid. I don't know, not complete, I guess, or something like that. Not complete man.
Mr. LIEBELER - This may not seem to be too important, but we are not just curious, it might have a bearing on the Commission's determination of what kind of man Oswald was and what kind of person he was.
Did Marina make fun of Oswald's sexual inability in front of other people, or was it a more general thing?
Mrs. HALL - Generally. I never heard sexual nothing; no. Only when I asked her about this, she told me. And that was, we don't talk any more about this. I didn't hear it. Maybe somebody else did. I didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER - You had the feeling, I gather from what you said, that if there were difficulties in the Oswald marriage, they were not entirely Lee Oswald's fault? it also would be some of the fault of Marina?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What is your opinion?
Mrs. HALL - I think that she is stubborn, real stubborn, and she would pick up something little and go on and have an argument for nothing.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever hear them argue about politics?
Mrs. HALL - No, sir; I never did discuss politics because I saw the Marx books and everything on his table, and I never did even go to a conversation with him. But sometimes I would ask her, "How is life in Russia ?"
And well, she would tell me that nothing, in what you go to the restaurant, and they don't have food, and things like that and he would get mad at her. "That is not true. They have everything." And so on. And she would tell, I guess, the truth, and he wouldn't like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald sometimes expressed a more favorable view of life in Russia than Marina did?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was that a common thing for them to argue about?
Mrs. HALL - Well, they didn't argue, but when I was asking questions, she would tell the truth, and he would say, "No; that is not true in Russia. It is better" something. Not all the people think -
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned these books that you saw in Oswald's apartment. Do you remember any specific names of these books or magazines that you saw?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't, but I know some of them belonged to the downtown library, Fort Worth Library.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember whether these books related to particular subject matter? Were they books about Marxism and that sort of thing?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - You do remember that?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; I remember one of the books was real thick and black, I think. I don't remember any names.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't remember the specific names of any of the books?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you speak Russian, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever talk to Lee Oswald in Russian?
Mrs. HALL - All the time.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form an opinion of his ability to use the Russian language?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What was that?

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Mrs. HALL - Very good. I think he talked very good Russian. He could read and write and everything. And he, in fact, a few times I told him, I said, Lee, why don't you speak in English with Marina and let her learn English ?"
And he said, "No. Then I am forgetting my Russian." I said, "You don't need the Russian language now in the United States. She needs English."
And he said, "No, I won't." He never will talk English to her.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you also speak to Marina in Russian?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What kind of command of Russian did she have? How well could she speak Russian?
Mrs. HALL - Very well.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was she better able to speak Russian than Lee Oswald?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; of course.
Mr. LIEBELER - But in your opinion, Lee did have a good command of the Russian language?
Mrs. HALL - Very good.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was it grammatically correct, would you say?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Is your own command of the Russian language good, would you say?
Mrs. HALL - I thought it was good, and I think it is good, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER - What language did you learn as a child?
Mrs. HALL - Russian.
Mr. LIEBELER - So that was the first language you spoke, is that right?
Mrs. HALL - We spoke Russian in our home, and I was in French school. Then I was in Russian school again.
Mr. LIEBELER - You also speak French?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What is your language in Iran? Iranian?
Mrs. HALL - Armenian. And I think -
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you speak Turkish?
Mrs. HALL - Turkish a little bit.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever try to speak to Marina Oswald in English?
Mrs. HALL - No; I never did. I wasn't so long with her to try to teach her something.
Mr. LIEBELER - It was quite clear to you, was it, that Marina could not speak English at all?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; she could understand a little bit what the conversations was about, if I was talking to somebody. But she couldn't understand all little things.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now you first met Marina, you say, in approximately July of 1962. Did you have an opinion as to how much English she could understand at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I think it was the same thing.
Mr. LIEBELER - She didn't seem to learn too much English as time went on, is that right?
Mrs. HALL - Well, George Bouhe tried to teach her, and he brought her books and things like that. And once a week or twice a week she was sending her homework or something to him. He would correct her and sometimes, on a weekend, he would come and teach her more. That was all that I know that she has of English.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Mr. Peter Gregory?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; I know him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know his son, Paul?
Mrs. HALL - No; I never met him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina ever speak of Paul Gregory to you?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Gary Taylor?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. Well, one time Lee, while Marina was in my house - in fact, I just came out from the hospital accident - this Gary Taylor and his wife they brought Lee. It was on Sunday. They brought him to Fort Worth, and then they went back together, Lee Oswald and the Taylors.

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Mr. LIEBELER - Gary Taylor's wife at that time was the daughter of George DeMohrenschildt, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Mr. DeMohrenschildt?
Mrs. HALL - I met him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know him well, or are you a casual acquaintance of his?
Mrs. HALL - I saw him altogether maybe three or four times.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever talk to DeMohrenschildt about Lee Oswald?
Mrs. HALL - I don't think I did.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you know whether DeMohrenschildt was a close friend of Oswald's?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. Some friends told me again that they are very close with Lee Oswald. Well, in 1 week, because they couldn't go nowhere and didn't' have a car, and DeMohrenschildt came for him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever see Oswald drive an automobile?
Mrs. HALL - No. In fact, one time I asked Oswald. I said, talking something about the car, and I said, asked him, "Can you drive a car?" And he said, "No".
I said, "How come?"
He said, "Well, I just can't." And I said, "Every kid in high school can drive a car. How come you can't?"
And he said, "Well, I just can't."
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever hear of Oswald learning how to drive a car?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned previously that Mr. Bouhe asked you if you could help in getting Marina's teeth fixed. Do you know whether Marina ever did get her teeth fixed?
Mrs. HALL - Well, she needed a few teeth extracted, and George Bouhe made an appointment for her here in Baylor. And the few times she came - and extracted them and came back.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina ever tell you who paid for this work to be done?
Mrs. HALL - No; she did not tell me.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know who paid for it?
Mrs. HALL - No. Maybe George Bouhe did, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever have any discussions with Marina about religion?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. While she was in my house, she asked one time, she said, "Elena. I want to baptize my baby." She said, "Well, I was baptized. My grandmother baptized me, but when I talk about religion and baptize, he don't want to even hear it, so how about baptizing the baby." And I called Father Dimitri here in Dallas, and it is Greek Orthodox Church, and I told him the situation and who they are, and she wanted baby baptized. And he said, that is fine, so I took her one night, her and the baby, and we - I am a godmother of the child. And, of course, when Lee found it out, it was too late already, and he, of course, didn't like it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember anything specifically that he said about that?
Mrs. HALL - No. Marina told me when I saw her at Christmas - I asked her, and she said, of course, he didn't like it.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned before that at Christmastime in 1962, you went over to Oswald's apartment in Dallas, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who was there at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Me, Marina, and the child - Lee -
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you remember what the discussion was at that time? What did you talk about? Do you have any recollection?
Mrs. HALL - Well, when we went in, they didn't have any Christmas tree, no nothing. And I looked and I said, "Where is your Christmas tree?" And Lee said, "What Christmas tree?" And I said, "Well, everybody has a Christmas tree." And Lee said, "No; we don't have Christmas tree."
Then John started to talk with him about religion. I think it was Christ-

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mastime, yes; and then he said that it is just commercialized, a commercialized holiday.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember what your husband said in response to that remark by Oswald?
Mrs. HALL - No; but I don't remember whether it was at that time or at Easter when John talked with him and said, "Well, we sometimes come to Dallas to go to church. If you want to, they will come and - we will come and take you with us." And he said, "No; not me. If Marina wants, she can go with you."
Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald indicated that he himself did not care to go to Church?
Mrs. HALL - He said no; he wouldn't, but if Marina wants, he didn't believe in nothing.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina ever go to church with you and your husband?
Mrs. HALL - No; she never did go. Well, I never did see them after Easter.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know after Marina moved out of your house where she went?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I guess they had an apartment at Elsbeth.
Mr. LIEBELER - As far as you know, they moved to an apartment on Elsbeth Street, and she stayed there with Lee until subsequently Lee moved around the corner to an apartment on Neely Street, is that right?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. The first time when we went there on Christmas, we went to Elsbeth. And the second time the landlord told me that they moved a couple of blocks from it, so we went there on Eastertime.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever hear that Marina moved out of the apartment on Elsbeth Street shortly after she returned to Lee and shortly after she moved out of your house and went to live with a friend of hers in Dallas?
Mrs. HALL - I think they had an argument and she left one night and she went, I think, to Meller's house and she stayed there. That is everything I hear. I don't know exactly, but through a friend you just hear things like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't have any direct knowledge of that instance?
Mrs. HALL - No; I mean I wasn't in touch with them at all, never.
Mr. LIEBELER - Let's go back to the time that you went to Oswald's apartment at Christmastime. Do you remember anything else that was discussed at that time, or have you given us your best recollection as to what the conversation was?
Mrs. HALL - With him?
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; with him or with Marina.
Mrs. HALL - John was asking him a question, how does he like his work. And does he learn something. And sometimes he can go into business for himself. And so he said, "No; I never think that I will go to business for myself."
And he said something about security, I don't have any security here on my job. I don't know if I am still there another week or so. And he said something about Russia.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did that seem to concern Oswald that he didn't know how long he was going to have his job?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; he was concerned about that. And he said in Russia you don't have to worry about that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald indicate that he wanted to go to Russia?
Mrs. HALL - No; well, he never did say.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you get the impression that he had a desire to return to the Soviet Union?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; I think if he would have money, he would go back, but she never did want to go back.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she tell you that?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What did she tell you about that?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I was telling her - she said the life is so bad there. Bad in a way like they don't have luxuries that they have here. They don't have grocery stores like here and things like that. She missed her - she don't have relatives - I think she has only, I mean she don't have parents, but she has relatives, and she says, "Sometimes I miss them but I wouldn't like to go back and live."

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Mr. LIEBELER - She never at anytime indicated any desire to return to Russia; is that right?
Mrs. HALL - in fact, I had the impression that she married him only to just get out from that place.
Mr. LIEBELER - Where did you get that impression?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I don't know, because I don't think she ever loved him.
Mr. LIEBELER - What makes you say that Mrs. Hall? What do you base that statement on?
Mrs. HALL - Well, because they had arguments from the time they were married, I think, and the little things she said, and seems like she never did like him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she ever tell you specifically that she married Oswald to come to the United States?
Mrs. HALL - No; she never did.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you discuss this question with your friend as to whether or not Marina married him to get to come to the United States?
Mrs. HALL - I think I mentioned to somebody. I don't remember who.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that was a generally held opinion then, in the Russian community in Dallas that that was one of the reasons why Marina married Oswald, or do you?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't know what they thought.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned that on Easter you went to the Oswalds to take a gift to the baby, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; that's right.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who was there at that time? Just Lee and Marina and the baby and yourself and your husband?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you recall what the conversations were between you at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Well, it was about church again. John said, "if you want, we will take you." Not much at all. We didn't stay very long.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was any - was there any further conversation about Oswald's job or desire to go back to Russia that you can remember?
Mrs. HALL - Well, about job. While John and Lee were talking, Marina told, "Did he tell you ?" And I said, "Tell me what ?" She said that he lost his job. And I said, "No, he didn't tell me." She said, "One of those things." "He never tells anybody about himself." And then I found out he lost his job. He is not working any more. And I said, "What are you doing all day long?" And her face was rather, she had sunburn. "Where did you get that sunburn?" "Well, all day we go fish." There was a little bitty place on Elsbeth Street, and she said, "We just fish all day and eat trout. Fish and eat."
Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald was not working at that time?
Mrs. HALL - No; he wasn't working.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you know where he worked in Dallas when he had a job?
Mrs. HALL - He was in kind of picture printing company, or I don't know, printing pictures or something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, have you told us, to the best of your recollection, all the conversation that occurred at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - That was the last. time you saw Lee Oswald, is that right?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - You subsequently learned, however, that they had moved to New Orleans, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL - I didn't know it. I heard it again that they moved.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember who told you that?
Mrs. HALL - I think Mrs. Max Clark.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you subsequently have a discussion with your husband about the fact that the Oswald's had left for New Orleans?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; I think I mentioned to him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember what he said and what you said?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't think we said anything.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember what your husband told you when you heard

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that Oswald had gone to New Orleans, that your husband, John, thought that Oswald was on his way back to Russia, that he had gone to New Orleans to take passage on a ship to Russia?
Mrs. HALL - I don't remember.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't have any recollection of that conversation?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't. I heard all these things from Mrs. Clark, because she is more in touch with the people here in Dallas. She comes more often to Dallas to see George Bouhe, and we were not very much. We don't see him very much, these Russian people.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever have any political conversations with Oswald?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form an opinion as to Oswald's political views?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What was that opinion?
Mrs. HALL - That he is a Communist and nobody can change him.
Mr. LIEBELER - You formed that opinion because of books and literature that you had seen in his house and things that other people told you about him?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. If the man went to Russia and came back, he should have learned his lesson, I guess. When he came back, he should know that here is a better place, but still he was thinking about Russia. And I was raised in a very anti-Communist family.
Mr. LIEBELER - And you didn't have much sympathy with Oswald's attitude?
Mrs. HALL - No; none at all.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina ever tell you that she wanted to move to Dallas because she heard there were English classes held at the YMCA?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - When did she tell you that?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I guess while she was living in my house; or no, it was before that time. Well, George Bouhe told her that they had classes here in Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever ask Marina whether she had gone to any of these classes?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. The first time when I saw her at Christmas, I asked her, and she said, "No; how can I go. He won't baby-sit at night, and I have to take bus to go downtown." And she couldn't do it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Jack Ruby or Jack Rubenstein?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know of any connection between Oswald and Rubenstein or Ruby?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't. In fact, at that time they never talked about his mother, Marguerite Oswald, and I had the impression that Marina had never met her, because she never mentioned to me. She told me that they live in Oswald's brother's house for a week or so before they found this apartment is Fort Worth.
Mr. LIEBELER - But Marina never mentioned Lee's mother to you at all?
Mrs. HALL - No. And I had that impression that she is not in Texas, something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - You later learned from reading the newspaper that Marguerite Oswald did live in Texas?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you never heard Lee Oswald mention his mother at any time?
Mrs. HALL - No. He never would talk. He would just sit there and look, or if he had something to read, he would read.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did he read quite a bit?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; I think he did.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you have any way of forming an opinion as to what he did with his time when he wasn't at work?
Mrs. HALL - He was lying on the floor or on the couch and reading.
Mr. LIEBELER - He didn't have any other outside activity that he had other than his work?

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Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned the fact that he had done some fishing at the little pond in Dallas?
Mrs. HALL - That is when he didn't have any job.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Mr. Alexander Kleinlerer?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. He was coming to my house while John and I were divorced. That was all.
Mr. LIEBELER - What?
Mrs. HALL - I said, that was all he was coming, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Mr. Kleinlerer tell you that during the time that you were in the hospital and subsequently when you were in New York, that he came to the house to see how Marina was and how she was getting along?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. He didn't tell me, but Mrs. Clark told me, because when I came back from New York, John was in Fort Worth already, and we got married after 2 days and I didn't see him any more. I didn't see this Kleinlerer any more.
Mr. LIEBELER - Have you ever seen him since then?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - You had no discussions yourself with Kleinlerer about what Marina was doing or who was at the house while you were gone?
Mrs. HALL - No. Mrs. Clark told me that sometime he would take Marina to grocery store, and sometimes she would take her.
Mr. LIEBELER - How did you make arrangements to pay for these groceries for Marina while you were in the hospital and you were in New York? Did you give her money, or did you have a charge account at the grocery store, or something like that? What was it?
Mrs. HALL - I didn't give her money that time.
Mr. LIEBELER - How did she get groceries during the time that you were gone to New York and during the time that you were in the hospital, do you know?
Mrs. HALL - I don't know. Maybe Mrs. Clark or Mr. Kleinlerer paid for her.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you yourself did not pay for any of her groceries?
Mrs. HALL - No; I did not.
Mr. LIEBELER - But during the time that you and Marina both were living at the house, you paid for the groceries, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - How long did both you and Marina live in the house together?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I guess 2 weeks.
Mr. LIEBELER - That you were actually together in the house?
Mrs. HALL - Yes. But I was working all the time. And in fact - that time when she was in my house, sometimes I stayed for overtime. I worked overtime at nights.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were you doing work as a dental technician at that time?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - During the time that you knew the Oswalds and these various meetings that you had with them, did you discuss with them the reasons as to why Lee Oswald went to Russia in the first place?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever discuss with either one of them, or were you present at a discussion where he told anybody what kind of a job he had in Russia?
Mrs. HALL - He was working in some kind of factory, I think. I don't remember, really. I never did talk about this with him.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't remember that he told you or anybody when you were there, how much he was paid in the factory, do you?
Mrs. HALL - Well, I think 80 rubles, Russian rubles, I think. Well, I don't know. I think she had 80 rubles. He had a little bit more.
Mr. LIEBELER - That was while Marina worked, too?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald say that he had any other source of income when he was in Russia from any source other than his job?
Mrs. HALL - No.

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Mr. LIEBELER - Did he ever tell you, or did you ever hear that he received help from the Red Cross while he was in the Soviet Union?
Mrs. HALL - No; I never heard of it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did he ever mention any hunting trips that he had gone on when he was in Russia?
Mrs. HALL - I don't know. He never did mention it to me.
Mr. LIEBELER - have no recollection of having heard him speak of such a thing?
Mrs. HALL - No. I never spoke with him very much, because I think we were allergic to each other. He didn't like me and I didn't like him at all.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever see a gun of any kind in any of their possessions? You said that you moved them?
Mrs. HALL - No; I did not.
Mr. LIEBELER - You never knew them to own a firearm of any type, is that right?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina tell you anything about her youth in Russia, where she lived and what kind of things she did?
Mrs. HALL - Not very much, really.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she tell you that she had been born in Leningrad?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; she told me she was living in Leningrad and then moved to Minsk.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she tell you why she moved?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever hear from anybody else why she moved?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever discuss with the Oswalds the reason why they returned to the United States?
Mrs. HALL - Well, because I think he changed his mind.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know any specific reasons that made him change his mind?
Mrs. HALL - No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did it seem strange to you that the Oswalds could leave Russia and come back to the United States together like they did?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; it was kind of strange.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever discuss that with the Oswalds?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever discuss it with anybody else?
Mrs. HALL - Well, once when they came to Fort Worth, it was all over the papers, you know, and like we Russians, we just want to know. I mean, we read the paper, and Oswald tried to call a few people, and I called Mrs. Clark, and she didn't know what to do, and we don't know.
Is it good or bad, really, for us to get in touch with them? So finally John or George Bouhe got in touch with them, and I told Mrs. Clark and all the Russians told probably, it is okay.
Mr. LIEBELER - Well, did you ever have any discussion with these Russian people as to the apparent ease with which Oswald was able to leave the Soviet Union and come back?
Mrs. HALL - It wasn't very easy. I read in the paper that it took him over year. Well, he was a year, 1 year in Russia, he started asking to come back and it took him almost 2 years, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER - That is something you read in the paper after the assassination, isn't that right?
Mrs. HALL - No; I think it was in the paper at that time.
Mr. LIEBELER - When they came back from Russia?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you recall any conversations with any of your Russian friends that you had, or anybody else, about this question of Oswald's return to the United States and the fact that Marina was permitted to leave Russia and come with him? I don't want you to remember anything that didn't happen, but if you do have a recollection of it, I would like to have it.

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Mrs. HALL - Well, I think I talked with Mrs. Clark about that, and we thought it strange how come they let Marina come, so that was all.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever have any discussions with any of these people before the assassination as to whether or not Oswald might be a Russian agent?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did it ever occur to you prior to the assassination that Oswald might be a Russian agent?
Mrs. HALL - I really don't know. It is such a hard question. Only one thing I could tell, that he was such a quiet and such a - I don't know how to express myself - person, that I never thought he could do something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Like shoot the President, you mean?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did it ever occur to you prior to the time of the assassination that he was dangerous or mentally unstable in any way, did it?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were you surprised when you heard that he had been arrested in connection with the assassination?
Mrs. HALL - Very much so.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any conversations with your friends about it then?
Mrs. HALL - In fact, when I was watching TV and I saw all the shooting, after a few minutes Mrs. Clark called me and said, "Elena, did you hear? Lee Oswald - Did you hear Lee Oswald's name?"
I said, "No." She said, "I heard it on the radio, and I think it was Lee Oswald's name."
And I couldn't believe it. After an hour or so, they told that it was Lee Oswald, and everybody was very surprised.
Mr. LIEBELER - You say that most all of your friends in the Russian group were very surprised that Oswald was involved in this?
Mrs. HALL - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald ever express within your hearing, or did you ever hear him having expressed resentment against the U.S. Government for any reason?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did he ever express resentment that it had taken a long time for him to come back to the United States after he decided to return from Russia?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever hear him mention President Kennedy or talk about President Kennedy in any way?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - How about Governor Connally?
Mrs. HALL - No; never.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald ever mention Richard Nixon?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - You never heard of any displeasure that Oswald might have had with Mr. Nixon?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - What about General Walker, did you ever hear any discussion about him?
Mrs. HALL - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - Think about it now. Do you think of anything now, Mrs. Hall, that you can remember about the Oswalds about your relationship with them, that you think the Commission should know about that I haven't already asked you about? Can you think of anything that you should add at this point?
Mrs. HALL - I wish I knew more.
Mr. LIEBELER - You think we pretty well covered everything?
Mrs. HALL - Yes; that is all, I think.
Mr. LIEBELER - I have no more questions at this point. Thank you very much, Mrs. Hall.