TESTIMONY OF LOGAN W. MAYO

The testimony of Logan W. Mayo was taken at 8:40 p.m., on March 26, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Mr. Logan W. Mayo. Mr. Mayo, my name is Leon D. Hubert. I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel on the President's Commission. Under the Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, a joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules and procedures adopted by the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you, Mr. Mayo. So, I state to you that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy, and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular to you, the nature of our inquiry is to determine what the facts are that you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry. Mr. Mayo, you have appeared here tonight by virtue of a general request made by J. Lee Rankin, general counsel of the staff of the President's Commission by a letter written to J. E. Curry, chief of police asking him to make his officers, reserve and regular, available to the Commission. Under the rules adopted by the Commission you are entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of this deposition, but the rules also provide that the witness may waive this notice if he sees fit to do so. I am asking you if you are willing to waive that 3- day notice?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir; I am willing to waive the 3-day notice and cooperate with you in any way that I can.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. MAYO. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your full name?
Mr. MAYO. Logan W. Mayo.
Mr. HUBERT. Your age?
Mr. MAYO. Fifty-six.
Mr. HUBERT. Your residence?
Mr. MAYO. Dallas, Tex.
Mr. HUBERT. And what is your civilian occupation, sir?
Mr. MAYO. I am an accountant.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been in that profession, sir?
Mr. MAYO. Thirty-five years.
Mr. HUBERT. That is your own private business?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; I am with Sears Roebuck & Company.
Mr. HUBERT. I see, and are you in charge of a division or something with that company?
Mr. MAYO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state what it is?
Mr. MAYO. In charge of accounting and the auditing and the accounts payable of the mail order catalog business.
Mr. HUBERT. In the Dallas----
Mr. MAYO. Dallas region.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so employed by Sears Roebuck?
Mr. MAYO. Thirty-five years.

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Mr. HUBERT. Now, you are also, as I understand, a member of the reserve on the Dallas Police Force?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been with the reserve?
Mr. MAYO. Six years.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you have occasion to be called to duty on November 24, 1963, the Sunday after the President was shot?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been on duty prior to that Sunday?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I want to concern ourselves solely with the Sunday, right now.
Mr. MAYO. No; not on Sunday, not until I was called at 9 o'clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; at 9 o'clock, you did get a call to come on duty?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was it from, do you remember?
Mr. MAYO. I think it was Sergeant Maxey.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ask you to notify any other reservists?
Mr. MAYO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who were they, do you remember?
Mr. MAYO. He asked me to call the reservists in my squad, which consists of about six, seven people.
Mr. HUBERT. You are a lieutenant, aren't you?
Mr. MAYO. I'm a sergeant.
Mr. HUBERT. And you did call?
Mr. MAYO. I called the men, but none of them showed up. They had all gone to church, or was fixing to go to church. I contacted a lot of them and they were leaving to go to Sunday school and they had other plans and none of them could make it.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Holly?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you get in touch with him?
Mr. MAYO. I got in touch with him and he said he would come down as soon as he got loose. I didn't see him at the city hall, though.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you speak to him?
Mr. MAYO. I called him on the phone.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you tell him what time he should get down there or what time the transfer was going to be?
Mr. MAYO. I told him he should try to be there between 10 and 10:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you tell him what time the transfer was going to be, or that you thought it was going to be, or anything of that sort?
Mr. MAYO. I told him it might be sometime between 10 and noon. I didn't know for sure.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't see him any more after that?
Mr. MAYO. I didn't see him down at the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you get to the city hall?
Mr. MAYO. I got there about 9:45.
Mr. HUBERT. Where were you stationed?
Mr. MAYO. I was stationed right here, at Commerce Street, guarding this entrance to the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that the witness is pointing to the mockup, and he points to the sidewalk area in front of the Commerce Street exit----
Mr. MAYO. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Of the police department. How long did you stay there, sir?
Mr. MAYO. I was there from about 10:15 until about 11:30.
Mr. HUBERT. You were what----
Mr. MAYO. Then, I left and went----
Mr. HUBERT. What were your duties?
Mr. MAYO. My duty was to guard the entrance to the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say "guard," what do you mean?
Mr. MAYO. I was not to permit any people to go in there except maybe the press that had a certified press card.

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Mr. HUBERT. Were you given any description of the kind of cards that you could honor?
Mr. MAYO. I was told that they probably would have a press card with their picture on it and their newspaper.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to refuse entrance to anyone?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir; several people.
Mr. HUBERT. You turned them away?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did some pass by you, that is to say, with your consent, after being properly identified?
Mr. MAYO. You mean enter the building?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. MAYO. I let two in from newspapers.
Mr. HUBERT. And they were properly identified?
Mr. MAYO. They were properly identified. One of them had a two-wheeled cart, similar to a two-wheel golf cart and pulling some equipment on it.
Mr. HUBERT. What kind of equipment?
Mr. MAYO. It looked like cameras and typewriters.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Jack Ruby or have you seen any pictures since in the paper?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir; I don't know him, but I have seen his picture.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you be willing to state that neither of those two men that you let in was Jack Ruby?
Mr. MAYO. Neither of those two men were him. They were smaller in stature. I want to tell you that at 11:30, I left the entrance and went to the other one on Main Street.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that the witness is pointing to the mockup and when he says he left "this entrance," he was pointing to the Commerce Street entrance, and then he went to the----
Mr. MAYO. Main Street entrance?
Mr. HUBERT. Main Street entrance.
Mr. MAYO. The other----
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go to the building?
Mr. MAYO. I went in the building, stayed over there until 1:10.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what happened?
Mr. MAYO. I got off duty and went home.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't go out to the Parkland Hospital?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; I was asked to go, but didn't have any relief so they wanted the guard, there was about a hundred or so people congregating and coming up from church and everywhere else, and just a big crowd there, see, and I was needed there.
Mr. HUBERT. At the Main Street entrance?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Now, for purposes of identification I want to mark what purports to be a signed copy of a report to Chief Curry, dated December 3, 1963, and signed, actually, by Jack Revill, and F. I. Cornwall, by placing in the right-hand margin the following, "Dallas, Tex., March 26, 1964, Exhibit No. 5111, deposition of R. L. Mayo." I am signing my name under that, and I'll ask you if you have read that, Mr. Mayo? I mean read the letter?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, I have read that.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you endorse your name underneath it? I'm also endorsing a document which is a report of FBI Agent Wilkinson dated December 5, 1963, by placing on the right-hand margin the following: "Dallas, Tex., March 26, 1964, Exhibit No. 5112, deposition of H. L. Mayo." I'm signing my name and ask you to sign your name.
Mr. MAYO. What is this right here [indicating]?
Mr. HUBERT. I would like you to read it first. That's right.
Mr. MAYO. Do you want me to sign this? I talked to Mr. Wilkinson----
Mr. HUBERT. Yes. As far as you know, then, the contents of the documents marked 5111 and 5112, are correct reports of interviews to which they relate?
Mr. MAYO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that I am not taking out of the bound

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volume, Commission Document 81-A, page 70, the signed statement by Mr. Mayo. Mr. Mayo, do you have anything more to add? Anything new that has not been brought up in either this deposition or these two Exhibits, 5111 and 5112?
Mr. MAYO. Well, could you cut this off a minute and let's talk about it and see?
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
(Discussion off the record. )
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that Mr. Mayo wanted to acquaint me with the general nature of another matter, but that after he had spoken a few sentences, it became apparent to me that it should be a matter of record, so, I will ask you now, Mr. Mayo, just simply to repeat what you have said to me in the last few sentences off the record.
Mr. MAYO. The first individual that tried to gain entrance into the basement said that he was a minister and he had a small book in his hand and I asked him what his business was. He said he wanted to go see Lee Harvey Oswald, that he was a friend of his, a minister that was supposed to help him, and he needed him, and he needed to go down there, and I told him "No, he could not enter without"--now, that is when I was on the Commerce Street side, and he hung around the entrance for some 20 minutes, I think, and he kept looking in the basement and acted very peculiar, but finally he left within about 20 minutes. He was tall, skinny, looked like over 6 feet tall, and looked like he was a man between 55 and 60.
Mr. HUBERT. How was he dressed?
Mr. MAYO. He had on a suit. I don't recall the color of it, but it was just a suit, business suit with a necktie.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have a hat?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir; he had a hat on.
Mr. HUBERT. And a coat?
Mr. MAYO. I--yes.
Mr. HUBERT. A top coat?
Mr. MAYO. I don't believe that he had on----
Mr. HUBERT. Regular coat, suit coat, not an overcoat?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you say you reported the fact to the----
Mr. MAYO. I mentioned that to Jack Revill, and they said, well, it was probably just like lots of people trying to gain entrance. They didn't think it had much value.
Mr. HUBERT. And he suggested that it be left out of your report?
Mr. MAYO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything else?
Mr. MAYO. When I changed positions--stations, and went from Commerce Street to the Main Street side, about 10 minutes after Oswald had been placed in the ambulance, I cleared the way for them to get out of the entrance.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. MAYO. I went to the other side, and a large gentleman, well, he was slightly bald, weighed over 200 pounds, and walked with a limp. He came up to me and then said that he was a roommate of Jack Ruby, and that he wanted to go down and talk to him. And I told him he could not enter. I asked him what was the nature of his business and he said that Mr. Ruby had quite a sum of money on his person and he wanted to go down there and see if he wanted him to handle it for him. I told him he couldn't go down and he stayed up around there about 20 or 30 minutes, and finally went on down Main Street.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give you his name?
Mr. MAYO. I didn't ask him his name. He didn't give me his name. I told him he couldn't enter--and he walked with a limp. I remember that. He was a large fellow. Had no tie on and slightly bald. No hat on.
Mr. HUBERT. And he claimed to be a roommate of Jack Ruby?
Mr. MAYO. Jack Ruby; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you describe him otherwise, his hair, his height----
Mr. MAYO. I'd say he was over 6 feet tall, and much heavier than I am.
Mr. HUBERT. You have given all that information, I think. Did he have a coat on?

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Mr. MAYO. No, sir; he had no coat on.
Mr. HUBERT. Just a shirt?
Mr. MAYO. Just a shirt, heavy shirt and no tie on.
Mr. HUBERT. And you gave that information to Jack Revill?
Mr. MAYO. I mentioned it to him and he said, well, just probably somebody knew him and trying to use an excuse to get in, so, he didn't feel like it was--it is my opinion it might be this fellow Senator that we have been hearing about. I don't know how you spell his name.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you estimate what time it was that this man, the heavy man, tried to get in to see Jack Ruby through the Main Street entrance?
Mr. MAYO. Sir, I would only have to estimate it at, I would say, around 11:45.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, anything else that you mentioned to Revill that was not put down?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir. I mentioned about the tourists. That is a man and a woman that hung around the entrance on the Main Street side and said they were just passing through Dallas, and they lived in Springfield, Ill., I believe they said, and they wanted to take some pictures, and they kept hanging around the entrance and they did take a few pictures and finally left. I don't know if they are connected with it or not.
Mr. HUBERT. Anyhow, you mentioned that episode to Jack Revill and he also was of the opinion that it was not important?
Mr. MAYO. Minor, minor.
Mr. HUBERT. Any other things then?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir. While I was on the Commerce Street side I had a Ford Fairlane car that came up about three times with two men in the front seat, and each time they would stop and ask me if he had come down--"What's happening?" I wondered then--now, I didn't mention that to Revill, because I didn't think about it at the time, but I wondered since then if they had some connection with this----
Mr. HUBERT. You did not mention that to Revill?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you didn't take the license number?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; it was just routine to me. They kept coming by.
Mr. HUBERT. And how many times did they pass you, do you know?
Mr. MAYO. Third time----
Mr. HUBERT. You saw them three times? Three times they came down Commerce?
Mr. MAYO. Came down--Commerce is one way going east, and they came down on my side and they slowed down and stopped and asked me, "Has he come down? Is anything happening?" And I would motion them on, because my job was to keep the street open.
Mr. HUBERT. And that happened three times?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And after the third time, what happened? Is that when the shot was fired or something, or you didn't see them any more or----
Mr. MAYO. After--I didn't hear the shot, but the hustle and bustle and noise in the basement, I looked down there and the men and all going around and around. Everything--and I heard a little radio from a pedestrian that said that Oswald had been shot, broadcast, and just about that time, I saw them going down Commerce Street.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say "them," you mean the two men in the Fairlane car?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir. They were just a little past the entrance when all this commotion started.
Mr. HUBERT. That was the third trip?
Mr. MAYO. That was the third trip down.. I went on down--went downstairs.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't notice whether it was a Texas license or not; or out of State?
Mr. MAYO. I didn't get a chance to see the license.

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Mr. HUBERT. Ford Fairlane. Do you remember the color?
Mr. MAYO. Seemed to me like it was a blue, or light color of some kind.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it a sedan?
Mr. MAYO. It was a 4-door.
Mr. HUBERT. 4-door sedan? Hard top?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir; hard top.
Mr. HUBERT. What model, about? A new car? Could you please give us some idea about the model?
Mr. MAYO. It was a late model car.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it a 1964 model?
Mr. MAYO. No, no; it wasn't a 1964 model. If I was going to guess I would say a 1962 or 1963--one. That man was hatless and he had a high forehead.
Mr. HUBERT. He wasn't bald was he?
Mr. MAYO. I wouldn't say he was bald, just had a high forehead.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that the driver?
Mr. MAYO. That was the driver.
Mr. HUBERT. How was he dressed?
Mr. MAYO. He had on an old, old--looks like he had a heavy wool shirt like you wear in the winter, long sleeves.
Mr. HUBERT. Have a tie on?
Mr. MAYO. No tie.
Mr. HUBERT. What color was the shirt? Do you remember?
Mr. MAYO. The shirt--it was kind of checked color.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he dark complected?
Mr. MAYO. He was dark complected.
Mr. HUBERT. How old a man?
Mr. MAYO. I would guess in the forties, just by looking at him, and I have wondered since about his interest in it. Maybe just somebody that was inquisitive and wanted to see what was going on.
Mr. HUBERT. Could be. On the other hand we want to get all the facts, and that is a fact. What about the other man? Did you see him?
Mr. MAYO. I didn't pay much attention to him, because he was on the other side and I was dealing with the driver. It was a one-way street, and I was dealing with the driver over here and I didn't pay too much attention to the other man. I couldn't even describe him.
Mr. HUBERT. How close do you suppose you were to this man each time he drove up?
Mr. MAYO. Oh, I'd say 4 to 6 feet. See, my duty was to stand on the sidewalk and keep the overflow of people we had about 200 people, and if I moved out, somebody on the sidewalk could go in behind me, and I didn't get too far from the entrance of the----
Mr. HUBERT. I'm going to show you a set of pictures and ask if that man there---- look at them all first before you answer--bears any resemblance at all to the man you saw?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that the witness was looking at the pictures of Curtis Lavern Crafard. What about the other man in the car? Did he look like this fellow?
Mr. MAYO. Sir, I wasn't close enough to make any identification or recognize him. He was on the other side and I wasn't able to.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, was there anything else that you want to state to us?
Mr. MAYO. No; I can't think of anything else, sir. It was all just--I'd say, a state of commotion and confusion when this happened, and I had people everywhere around me and I just assumed that they are curiosity seekers. Making various comments about the assassination of a President.
Mr. HUBERT. I want to identify these pictures a little further. The pictures that were shown to the witness were various views of a man by the name of Curtis Lavern Crafard, taken November 28, 1963, by the FBI, and forwarded to the Commission recently. All right, sir. Is there anything else that you want to state about anything we have been talking about?
Mr. MAYO. No; I can't think of anything else that would pertain to this in

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any way and my work there. I was just on duty that morning and doing the best I could, and I can't think of any other incident
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Well, let me ask you this: Have you ever been interviewed by me or any other member of the Commission at any time except, of course, with this deposition?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; I've not been interviewed by you.
Mr. HUBERT. About a moment ago we went off the record. Have we covered, since we have been back on the record everything that you told me while we were off the record?
Mr. MAYO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir. That is it. Thank you.
Mr. MAYO. I want to express my appreciation to you people. I think you have done a fine job about investigating this thing, and I'm very happy to cooperate with you. I hope that you are able to solve this thing out and get it straight out, because I still think in my mind there was something back of this, because too much confusion around these entrances, and I, personally want to express my appreciation to every one of you people.
Mr. HUBERT. What do you mean by "too much confusion"?
Mr. MAYO. Seemed to me like people standing around and looking around. I don't know. People are funny. I have been working a long time. They just move around.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean a lot of members of the public?
Mr. MAYO. Public; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. But, let me clarify one thing, did your remark intend to say that the security methods weren't sufficient?
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; I think the security methods were very fine, but I just wondered why the curiosity. I still wonder in my own mind. I don't know. I wonder why so many people were down there?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; well, I wanted to get that straight, because at first I thought your remark might be construed by someone as being critical of the security measures.
Mr. MAYO. No, sir; the security measures was, at this time, was very good.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, thank you very much.
Mr. MAYO. Anything else?
Mr. HUBERT. No, sir; that's all.